143 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

So,
A DDC ran into a direwolf about 30 seconds into the game. 3 seconds elapsed and the atlas DDC was dead. The DDC had 105 CT armor. The DWF was boating CERMLs and alpha'd twice. Does that sound reasonable? Not from an 'is it possible' standpoint (because this actually happened) but from a 'is this where the game should be' standpoint.

I mean, if you think this is reasonable, then, why not just give everyone the same weapon, same mech, and play 1-hit kills? Or at leas that's my opinion.

The 'Im an uber player' DWF pilot was streaming it on twitch and surely enjoying how great they were in their new meta build, finishing with 147 points.

BTW, PGI, GameID=460786310788334300 if you wanna check your logs.

Unfortunately PGI will probably respond by nerfing the CERML rather than addressing the stupidity that is convergence -- am I right?

[Biglead]

Torso. Twisting.

[Mister Blastman]

At least it wasn't a Jenner. I hear they are scary ass mofos that can core an Atlas in three seconds...



Watch out! They are SKEERY!

Edited by Mister Blastman, 09 August 2014 - 07:37 PM.

[nehebkau]

Biglead, on 09 August 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

Torso. Twisting.

3 seconds.... TORSO Twist? .... LOL seriously 3 seconds and you say torso twist? ... You ever twist in an atlas? ROTFLOL! Are you a canned response bot?

Edited by nehebkau, 09 August 2014 - 05:40 PM.

[CheeseThief]

Why are we blaming convergence instead of the pilot?

A Direwolf and an Altas meeting 30 seconds into the game takes something special to achieve, let alone meeting without the rest of their lances getting involved.


Charging an enemy positions the instant the map starts is usually refereed to as suiciding for a reason.

Edited by CheeseThief, 09 August 2014 - 05:41 PM.

[Mcgral18]

So, someone stared down a mech with a 1.3+second burn time...twice...without twisting at all?


Well then. That doesn't sound like a competent Atlas pilot.

[Biglead]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

3 seconds.... TORSO Twist? .... LOL seriously 3 seconds and you say torso twist? ... You ever twist in an atlas?

...

[Carrion Hound]

... 3 seconds in a fight is... actually a pretty long time bud.

Try twisting, or you know. Waiting for the rest of your team, or getting your scale of time right.

[Lord Perversor]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

So,
A DDC ran into a direwolf about 30 seconds into the game. 3 seconds elapsed and the atlas DDC was dead. The DDC had 105 CT armor. The DWF was boating CERMLs and alpha'd twice. Does that sound reasonable? Not from an 'is it possible' standpoint (because this actually happened) but from a 'is this where the game should be' standpoint.

I mean, if you think this is reasonable, then, why not just give everyone the same weapon, same mech, and play 1-hit kills? Or at leas that's my opinion.

The 'Im an uber player' DWF pilot was streaming it on twitch and surely enjoying how great they were in their new meta build, finishing with 147 points.

BTW, PGI, GameID=460786310788334300 if you wanna check your logs.

Unfortunately PGI will probably respond by nerfing the CERML rather than addressing the stupidity that is convergence -- am I right?

While is still possible to perform such a killing alpha. the Atlas choose to remain fully stationary.
a bit of Torso twist may leave the Atlas higly damaged but fully operational vs a shutdown direwolf who should take 4 secs to turn on again.

Upon the premise of a Dual Gauss+ 8x Cerml build

Edited by Lord Perversor, 09 August 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[Koniving]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

So,
A DDC ran into a direwolf about 30 seconds into the game. 3 seconds elapsed and the atlas DDC was dead. The DDC had 105 CT armor. The DWF was boating CERMLs and alpha'd twice. Does that sound reasonable? Not from an 'is it possible' standpoint (because this actually happened) but from a 'is this where the game should be' standpoint.

I mean, if you think this is reasonable, then, why not just give everyone the same weapon, same mech, and play 1-hit kills? Or at leas that's my opinion.

The 'Im an uber player' DWF pilot was streaming it on twitch and surely enjoying how great they were in their new meta build, finishing with 147 points.

Unfortunately PGI will probably respond by nerfing the CERML rather than addressing the stupidity that is convergence -- am I right?

Think that's bad?

See how fast this one dies shortly after 7 minutes.

But your encountered problem is due to the joke that is ghost heat -- rather than a proper limited threshold such as 30 -- on a mech (the Dire Wolf) that by default in MWO's screwed rising threshold system has 71.25 threshold after elites (15 DHS) and a really fast cooling rate (3.105/sec when 15 DHS in TT would be 3/sec). Gotta love that 20% Heat Containment boost to threshold and the 15% Cool Run boost to cooling rate!

That means that even with ghost heat it can fire up to 9 ER ML at once before reaching enough heat to be a problem. A 20 DHS Dire Wolf could fire 10 at once and still keep on trucking even with ghost heat. That's 84.7 heat fired at once that won't shut it down. (Of that, only 50 heat comes from the ER ML, the rest is ghost heat).

Why? Rising thresholds. It's time they go. We've been saying it for 2 years.
No ghost heat and with 30 threshold, wanna know how many ER ML could be fired at once? 6 and instant shutdown. (6 ER ML at 5 heat per ER ML = 30 = shutdown).

Pinpoint is only part of the problem, but it's majorly exasperated by the threshold that doesn't limit what we can fire.

Don't worry though. PGI is hot on fixing all the problems' symptoms and not their causes.

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

So, someone stared down a mech with a 1.3+second burn time...twice...without twisting at all?

Well then. That doesn't sound like a competent Atlas pilot.

True.
Also the Atlas had to die within 4.3 to 5.6 seconds if there was two ER ML alpha strikes involved. Beam times (1.3 for once, to 2.6 for twice) plus recharge time.

Edited by Koniving, 09 August 2014 - 06:21 PM.

[Dirkdaring]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

So,
A DDC ran into a direwolf about 30 seconds into the game.

Stopped right there. No it didn't. Not unless the direwolf was friendly...

[bobF]

Obviously a skill issue. There's never a time where you're restricted in a narrow lane of fire, and whatever mechs supporting you decide to all turn around to a chase a jenner/spider from behind, leaving you to simply deal with whatever is in front. That player should've torso twisted, enabling massive destruction to several upper body hitboxes, while you retaliated with your feeble 18 pt alpha from two arm-mounted energy HPs. In such a case, the DDC pilot would've died skillfully, instead of a noobish death. Game is fine, all is in balance.

Edited by bobF, 09 August 2014 - 05:55 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

I wanna know how a DW and an Atlas met up 30 seconds into a match.... what map was it? River city seems like the only possibility here, and even then, not likely...

[Monkey Lover]

I kill direwolfs in the rear with 3 alpha from a firestarter is that reasonable? I think I have killed them in under 3 seconds lol

Edited by Monkey Lover, 09 August 2014 - 05:59 PM.

[Scratx]

Bulletsponge0, on 09 August 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

I wanna know how a DW and an Atlas met up 30 seconds into a match.... what map was it? River city seems like the only possibility here, and even then, not likely...

Plus OP said "3 seconds" for cERML to fire twice... yeah, I didn't think so either.

The OP is exaggerating things and we aren't buying it.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Torso twisting means you're not pointing yourself at the enemy, which means you're not shooting at the enemy.

It's also very easy for them to simply wait for you to twist back to return fire, and then shoot you. Or shoot you with just one of its 10 weapon systems to trick you into thinking it's safe to twist back.

[Mcgral18]

bobF, on 09 August 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Obviously a skill issue. There's never a time where you're restricted in a narrow lane of fire, and whatever mechs supporting you decide to all turn around to a chase a jenner/spider from behind, leaving you to simply deal with whatever is in front. That player should've torso twisted, enabling massive destruction to several upper body hitboxes, while you retaliated with your feeble 18 pt alpha from two arm-mounted energy HPs. In such a case, the DDC pilot would've died skillfully, instead of a noobish death. Game is fine, all is in balance.

Someone seems a tad butthurt.

Besides, 18 SRMs+A, AC20 and MLs gives you a handy 66 damage potential, and they all share the same 4 second cooldown which helps in twisting.


Unless you want to stare down a dire whale. I guess that works too, if you want to die like a noob.

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 August 2014 - 06:02 PM.

[TB Freelancer]

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

So, someone stared down a mech with a 1.3+second burn time...twice...without twisting at all?


Well then. That doesn't sound like a competent Atlas pilot.

No!

He stared it down for at least 5.6 seconds if not longer.

I've killed a 100% fresh atlas in the past with one alpha, actually I've done it on numerous occasions, particularly against the ones stupid enough to stand square to me and barely move. Zoom in. Aim for the eye.

I'm a good DW pilot and I've gotta say. A fresh atlas takes a few solid alhpas before I can take it down, CERML alone just aren't enough. Usually I'll neuter it first because its more effective, sometimes I get lucky and it was carrying ammo or an XL and I get a surprise kill instead of tearing half of it off.

[Biglead]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

3 seconds.... TORSO Twist? .... LOL seriously 3 seconds and you say torso twist? ... You ever twist in an atlas? ROTFLOL! Are you a canned response bot?

I like to make my point in as few words as possible... The Atlas pilot was bad.

Edited by Biglead, 09 August 2014 - 06:02 PM.

[Wintersdark]

bobF, on 09 August 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Obviously a skill issue. There's never a time where you're restricted in a narrow lane of fire, and whatever mechs supporting you decide to all turn around to a chase a jenner/spider from behind, leaving you to simply deal with whatever is in front. That player should've torso twisted, enabling massive destruction to several upper body hitboxes, while you retaliated with your feeble 18 pt alpha from two arm-mounted energy HPs. In such a case, the DDC pilot would've died skillfully, instead of a noobish death. Game is fine, all is in balance.

If the above was true, then this thread would have been entirely unnecessary, because it wouldn't have been special at all.

One on one, a Direwolf will typically kill an Atlas, yes.

But one on one, a <insert Light/Medium/Fast Heavy here> can tear a Direwolf a new one. An Atlas is far, far better suited to engaging lighter targets.

In many ways, the Direwolf-Atlas comparison is like the old Stalker-Atlas comparison; except more extreme. The Direwolf, like the Stalker, is an anti-assault mech. It's exceptionally good at that - it crushes anything too slow to avoid it - but kind of bad at anything else. The Assault, on the other hand, is a very flexible massive war machine. It can engage any target effectively, utilizing wide torso twist and free arm movement as well as a diverse selection of weapon options.

Apples and Oranges.

---

With regards to the OP, however:

1) Impossible. Simply impossible. If you want to make a report like this, don't exaggerate things to make it or you ruin your own credibility.
2) If you're piloting an Atlas, work really hard at not running face first into a Direwolf.
3) If you do run face first into a Direwolf, your goal is survival, not victory. Push past the Direwolf, make him turn to keep you in his sights. Twist, force him to grind through your arms and side torsos (because you don't have an XL, right?!), both sides. Make him turn, so your allies can tear into his vulnerable bits. Direwolves have many vulnerable bits, once once turned it takes them a while to turn back.


Yes, an Atlas is at a disadvantage vs. a Direwolf, but there are lots of other matchups where the Atlas comes out easily ahead and the Direwolf suffers.